odds and ends

[meretricula]

I did make a post about Barça Femenino over at _fcbarcelona_, if anyone would like to check it out! I want to get some more stuff translated and find more pictures before I post to my journal, though.

I don't think I ever mentioned that I was reccing Barça fic for crack_van last month, did I? well, anyway, those recs are up too under the rpf: professional athlete tag if you want to take a look. I don't think there's anything in there that I haven't recced in some capacity before, but still. (just, um, ignore any recs in that tag that aren't by me. or don't, feel free to check them out! but they're not my endorsements, so I take zero responsibility for them.)

still thinking about creating a vids section to the football rec post. I don't know. there's not that many half-decent vids out there, and I have most of them saved to my computer, so it wouldn't be hard, it's just that I can't be objective and I'm not sure if that matters. I'll read fic about people I don't know; I'll read fic about people I hate. I really can't watch vids of them. (and I will watch really terrible vids of people I love. case in point: you have no idea how many times I have watched that.)

speaking of things I hate: look, as a general rule I don't hate teams. for the most part I try not to care about teams other than my own one way or the other. I'll root for the underdog against Bayern Munich or Manchester United (and when they drop points my teams are safer, so there's that too), but I don't hate them. there are players that I like on both teams. and yes, I sure as hell hate Madrid, but not because they're Barcelona's rival and cules are supposed to blindly despise them; I hate them because they stepped on Leo and shoved Puyi in the face and tried to break Cesc's leg and point-blank accused Pep of cheating to win the Champions League and have never been the least bit sorry for any of it. (and their president is an idiot, but you can't really hold that against anyone.) but it really has reached the point where I hate Liverpool. I hate them, I hope they lose every game they play, and unless they ship Luis Suarez out to Russia I will never respect them again. I would rather they lose to Manchester United than win.

I know some of you guys are Liverpool fans, and I do get that. if you can look past the bad stuff and still love the good stuff, that's your prerogative; everybody does that to some extent or another with their team. yes, Lucas Leiva is adorable. the academy kids are cute. Steven Gerrard's life is a beautiful tragedy. but none of that will ever make up for the utter bullshit that has come out of that club this season to me, so I'm sorry, but I hope they never win again.

Comments

[mardia.livejournal.com]

I thought about whether I should respond to this, because at the end of the day, it's your journal, you have a right to post whatever you want and feel however you want about a club that isn't your own. God knows all of us have our own feelings on clubs that aren't our own, and I'm not, like, trying to deny the validity of how you feel or whatever. You have every right to your opinion, and it's an opinion that probably the majority of football fans share.

But speaking, personally, as someone who has felt really fucking shitty about what LFC have done this year, as someone who has worked very hard not to seem like she's justifying/excusing any of it, and as someone who just woke up to their club having a completely demoralizing loss just a few hours ago, and as someone who usually really looks forward to your posts on my flist, this post made me feel pretty fucking terrible all over again, and I'm not quite sure why you had to post it right this second, if that makes sense. Coming right on the heels of THIS particular loss, and I do accept that I'm pretty oversensitive at the moment, but it feels a little vindictive, and like you're trying to pour salt into the wound.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

oh, man, I was sort of hoping you would see the cut and... not read. I know you're not in the best place for this discussion right now, this was basically a delayed reaction to the Carling Cup (I process things slooooooowly) and I felt like I had to say something. I'm sorry for rubbing salt in any wounds. I didn't mean to. =/

[mardia.livejournal.com]

Honestly, if I'd realized it would be about LFC, I wouldn't have, because let's face it, the fact that you hate Liverpool is hardly a secret, and like I said, you have every right to that, I'm not going to stand here and tell you you're wrong to feel that. Hell, if I was a neutral, I'd probably feel the same, but. I've basically been contemplating getting out of the fandom altogether, and I know you didn't mean to pour the salt in, I get that, but the timing of this means that now this is all I'll be thinking about. *shrug* It's not your responsibility to make me feel better about my club or being in sports fandom, but it's how I feel, and I figure we're good enough friends that I can be honest with you about how the timing of this came across to me.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

yeah, I'm sorry, the timing wasn't meant to be significant, it just happens to be the day and time of day when I can be on the internet talking about things, so. sorry again for hurting your feelings. hug it out?

(also, re: getting out of fandom, it's obviously your choice and I wouldn't try to influence you, but I'd miss you. if it's being that much of a pain, maybe just back away a little bit?)

[mardia.livejournal.com]

We're fine, no worries. I know you weren't trying to deliberately hurt my feelings.

(I'm gonna turn it over for a while. Currently writing non footie-fic, which is making me feel pretty good at the moment, so we'll see.)

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

ooh, is it Revenge? I'm thinking about starting that show, now that I've got all this free time.

[mardia.livejournal.com]

BBC Sherlock, actually, but YOU SHOULD TOTALLY WATCH THAT SHOW. Ahem. Sorry. The show is crazy good, and getting better all the time, and the female characters in particular are the best. (Fair warning, it is a soap opera, and the subtitle/motto of this show at this point could basically be: Nobody gets out of this alive.)

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

Sarah Rees Brennan has been recommending it, is why I finally decided to cave. she is pretty great at pimping things! (ugh why do shows not put whole seasons up on Hulu anymore. I WANT MORE THAN THE PILOT AND TWO OTHER EPISODES.)

[mardia.livejournal.com]

LOL. You can check on ABC.com, maybe? Also, if you are really desperate, I can er, probably track down dl links? shhhh.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

already did, haha. they have a couple more eps but not the ones from the beginning of the season. XD

(I can probably manage though. shhhhhh.)

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

Ugh, the Luis Suarez thing wasn't handled well by Liverpool at all. I mean, I have no dog in this race, so don't really care about winning or losing (I don't really care for the premiere league - I only care for Man City and that's only bc I adore Silva and Aguero lol). But looking at them not in the context of team but just as people, I don't like it. I mean, I know that if one of the Barça boys did something like that, I would hold onto the mentality of innocent until proven guilty, but I would hope that if he was guilty, that he wouldn't do anything else that was stupid and hurtful.

But at the same time, I can't say anything about the rest of the team. I get why the initially were on Suarez's side - I would expect teammates to have each other's backs - but I'm not sure how they're acting now (since I don't really follow british teams). Are they still supporting him? Even after the handshake incident? Bc then, my respect would go out the window. But I honestly can't say guilty by association bc I enjoy watching several Madrid players play, even when they're playing for Real (lol my first jersey ever was a Brazil Kaka one), so I can't act all high and mighty and say I'll turn my back on them just bc I can't stand most of the team, you know?

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

Ooh that came out a little weird. I don't mean you're acting all 'high and mighty' - I mean, it'd be hypocritical of me to say liverpool fans should hate all of liverpool when I cheer on players like Kaka, Higuain, Benzema, even Ronaldo, and get ridiculously excited seeing Casillas - and they can be wearing either their national jerseys or the Real ones and I can't help but still love them, even though I can't stand certain players. So, that's what I meant. Hope it came across that way, but thought I'd clarify just in case.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

oh, no, don't worry, I know what you meant! I don't think I explained particularly well either... just that I can't want Liverpool to win after all these shenanigans. I've got nothing against the players who were not directly involved (though I've got plenty against Dalglish after the completely idiotic way he handled things), I just can't root for them while they're wearing a Liverpool shirt. there's a tipping point, you know? like, I started rooting for City just because I wanted Mario and Silva and Tevez to do well. I do still like Lucas Leiva, but I can't feel happy for him when Liverpool wins anymore.

and it's particularly awkward as a Barcelona fan, because... we do have Busquets, you know, and there was never any real evidence and I want so much to believe that he would never ever ever have said what he was accused of saying, but I'll never be able to love him without hesitation and that doesn't make me not love Barcelona. I do understand Liverpool supporters. it's just that this is a step too far for me.

and yes, Liverpool as a club still stands behind Luis Suarez. he gave a half-assed bullshit "apology" for not shaking Evra's hand and that supposedly settles everything. I'm still so fucking furious. they wore shirts with his fucking face on them like he's some poor persecuted victim and I cannot, ugh.

[dorkorific.livejournal.com]

yo dawg, i really don't wanna ~beef here, and i understand the difficulty of the situation when the team you love does some problematic shit (mou saying "maricon" much?). and anyway, we all know I am a pain in the ass madridista! but i have a lot of feelings wrapped up here, so i can't not say this: there WAS real evidence. and Guardiola and the barca administration stood behind busquets regardless of the state of the evidence. remember the "mistake" comment? like, let's be real here.

for what it's worth, i am essentially finding it impossible to be an LFC fan bc of suarez's behavior and the club's response to it. but let's not play like busquets's offense was somehow lesser, or that it was "doubtful" that he'd done or said it, or that his comment was somehow not intended to be offensive, or whatever. face your shit.



large red text aside, there is no plausible alternate explanation for that. come on, bro. come on.

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

(Sorry to butt in.)

I've only started watching footie recently and only started reading/watching news a few months back, so altho I think I was around for the whole Busquets thing (was it during the last CL?), I didn't go out of my way to read about it in the news or find out what's going on - I didn't even know this happened for the longest time! I only watched for the pretty goals lol. So, could you explain what happened if it's not a bother? Was it Marcelo that he "allegedly" called mono? And yeah...not a lip reader but that doesn't look too good :( Why Busquets, why?

(Ooh, didn't know I could edit this now!)
You can PM if it's easier.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

as a thin-skinned cule who is still not over the busquets incident: if you do have this conversation, please do it by PM and not in my journal where I get to see all the comment notifications. it was gross, I still don't know who to believe, I don't think a gif subtitled by a biased media outlet is sufficient evidence to hang a man's reputation but I will never trust him again and it was really traumatic for me so seriously: not in my journal. I realize this is a public post but it's still my space and I'd really like to not have to relive one of the worst fannish experiences of my life.

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I totally get it, which is why I edited my comment to add that if dorkorific wants to fill me in, a PM to me would be fine bc I didn't wanna clutter your inbox with this. I mean, unbiased links would be great, but I don't think that'll happen and I'll take any opinions with a grain of salt, so don't worry. *all the hugs in the world*

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

no beef! this is a beef-free, semi-vegetarian zone! XD

like, I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think a subtitled gif that came from a biased source (insert that gif of Harry Potter screaming BUTTSEX or whatever) is sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that is all the evidence that was ever presented, unless Marcelo gave more in the closed hearing. I COMPLETELY RESPECT HIS RIGHT TO PRIVACY and I understand why he wouldn't want to talk to the press, but in the absence of his testimony, all I have is a gif. and I'm not willing to hang a dude on the basis of a gif. he broke my heart and I'm going to doubt him forever, but I'm not going to say that I know he did it when I don't know it, I just think it. but I'm also obviously inclined to give the benefit of a doubt and you're not and they sure as hell didn't prove he DIDN'T say it when they acquitted him. so. that's where I'm coming from. I understand where you're coming from. I wanted to reply because you absolutely deserve that courtesy, but I really don't want to have this debate again when it's already been hashed out by a zillion other people who are less emotional about it than I am. can we leave it at that?

anyway. to return to the point of the post: I'm not trying to prescribe anyone's feelings about Liverpool, which I think is how I came off? I feel a certain way. I don't expect anyone else to feel that way, especially not when my circumstances are different to theirs. I just wanted to talk through how I felt about the Carling Cup and "hating" clubs with myself. in retrospect, shouldn't have posted it. not least because it appears to be detracting from why I really made the post, which is HEY WE HAVE LADIES AND THEY'RE AWESOME AND PEOPLE SHOULD READ ALL THE TRANSLATIONS I DID ABOUT THEM.

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

Hey, everyone has a tipping point. I mean, if Busquets was accused of something again (or if he acted like Suarez did), I don't know if I'd be able to root for him ever again, but at this point bc it was kinda dropped, I'm merely lukewarm about him. But I'm different with Barça - not that I think they can do no wrong bc they're better than that or something, but that when they do something/are accused of doing something, it hurts more simply bc I care more about them. So...I don't know how I would have felt if you put the Suarez situation in Barça bc I don't know if I can *not* want them to win bc of that. I'd like to think I'd be a good person and say racism is too much for me and I can't support a team that stands behind someone who's racist, but that's the same as me saying 'oh, of course I'd risk my life to save a loved one' - I hope I'd do that, but I thankfully haven't been put in that situation so I can't say I would. So, altho I agree with you 100%, it's easier for me bc it's not a team I support anyway, so them losing won't hurt me as a fan. But if it's a Barça boy? I could either be even more disgusted or I'd get defensive about everyone not directly connected to the situation.

It's kinda like when Kaka got frustrated on the pitch and I think pushed a player? Or kicked the ball? Not sure what happened, but I felt really sad bc in my head that doesn't make sense, you know? He doesn't do that kinda stuff, imo, not bc I wanna say he's above that but bc it's not part of his personality? So...I guess I do expect more of him, maybe? *sigh* I'm not making sense and being contradictory I think. But that's kinda like I'd react if a Barça boy does something stupid. It's not part of the image, for me.

As for the shirts thing? Yeah, I completely agree. When Barça did it (lol, I just keep going back to them) for Villa? It was a great gesture of unity and support. When several La Liga teams honored Abi when it was announced that he had a tumor - that made me feel amazing. As did when the entire football community came together to support Japan and, more recently, Egypt. I love that unity that we get - but only in situations that warrant it. If he had been accused and treated terribly but in the end we found out that he was innocent (and in a way that could be proven, you know?). I'd feel terrible! And yes, then I wish the football community would come together and support him. But this isn't a situation like that and altho they can support him and say that it's innocent until proven guilty, he didn't deserve the shirts. That's something that to me shows a true loss of some sort. And after he refused to shake the player's hand? Ugh.

...I don't know if there was a point to this. And if there was, I'm not sure if I came to it? But yes, I agree as an outsider but I don't know what I'd do as a fan if City or, even worse, Barça did something like this. And sorry about the length.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

every situation is different, every situation is more or less personal. loving questionable things doesn't make you a bad person, and nobody and nothing is perfect. for me the Liverpool thing is easier because I like Patrice Evra very much as a person and I'm inclined to take his side anyway, and obviously I'm not terribly conflicted about it because Liverpool isn't a favorite of mine. the way I put things in the original post, I think I wasn't clear: god knows I love plenty of questionable things myself. there is NOTHING wrong with acknowledging what happened and still loving Liverpool enough to get over it. I myself do not. that's me. not anybody else.

[the-beanster.livejournal.com]

*nod* This entire comment? I'm in total agreement with it. And yeah, it's your journal - you're just stating your opinion. Nothing wrong with that :)

[distira.livejournal.com]

i'm slightly drunk (really drunk) right now so feel free to ignore me- but barcelona has done some shit, man. in the past and in the present. and i know, i know, madridista here! hello, bias! but like, there was video of busquets just as there's video of mou saying 'maricon'. and just like lfc are standing behind suarez, barca stood behind busquets. it's not like i've even followed EPL this season so i don't really care about liverpool except for the part where i used to stan suarez and now i don't, for obvious reasons, but pot meet kettle a bit on this one. idk. ilu and i feel like we're good enough friends that i can say this? like, ilu beyond football rivalries, but if i'm wrong on that, just. ignore me or whatever. i'll be amazed at myself in the morning if this doesn't have a bazillion typos.

and besides, sometimes it's more about the club than what the club does. yeah, clubs do shitty shit. but if someone's been an LFC supporter their whole life, they're not going to stop being a supporter because of one player, one coach, one administration that fucks up, you know? because the values that they hold the club to will eventually come back, and the parts of the club and the game that they love the most will eventually make their way back into the spotlight. madrid's got a terrible administration and an asshole who makes homophobic comments for a coach right now, and i recognize that, but am i gonna stop being a supporter? of course not. i'm assuming a lot of liverpool supporters feel the same way.

idek what i'm saying. drunk, like i said before. but i do love you and i'm not trying to offend you or anything.

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

I totally get you and I'm not saying anyone should stop being a Liverpool supporter, dude. I, personally, have reached the point where "reasons to be happy when Liverpool wins" are outweighed by "reasons to be pissed when Liverpool wins". it's not a very precise metric. XD and I was never much of a Liverpool fan so it's easy for me to say, obvs.

I know I come at football fandom from a weird angle compared to most people because for me, the team is the team is the team, and the club is mostly this nebulous ~thing that you sort of have to grow into. look, I wasn't around for the shit years, I wasn't around for the first Champions League, I'm not going to pretend I was. any emotions I have about the stuff that happened to the club come through a filter of how it affects or affected my team. I care about ~Barça the club~ because my team is a manifestation of ~Barça the club~, not the other way around. in five years I'll maybe have piled up enough history to have a personal interpretation of ~my club~ but for now? my team. idk if I'm making any sense here, but. history is important inasmuch as it affects the present, I think is what I'm saying. no more, no less. and for some people the present is influenced by all the past presents that they've lived through, but I've got... what, a year and a half, two years. which is a lot of time in my personal life but a heartbeat in the history of football. for me, football is NOW. (and the two years preceding. and any relevant history that I have absorbed. NOT A PRECISE METRIC.)

idek, there was some runofplay piece about how you fall in love with a team and the club will forever and ever and ever be that team to you and I think that was basically what I was trying to say. but it works both ways, you know? for me, this team is Liverpool. and there's great stuff about them and not so great stuff about them and right now for me the not so great stuff is winning out, so I don't like them. in ten years maybe they'll balance it out, but I can't start ten years ago. I started two years ago. right now they are where they are.

ugh sorry for the tl;dr. feel free to ignore my ~thoughts on yaoi~

[distira.livejournal.com]

dw about tl;dr! i drunk commented you, you were under no obligation to reply in the first place XD and you know i'm always interested in what you have to say.

obviously in my inebriated state i've misinterpreted the spirit of your post- reading again now it's obvious that you aren't saying anyone should stop supporting LFC. my bad!

but it is interesting for me to talk to someone who's coming into football recently about this. i've never heard this point of view expressed, since most people at least in the lj-based online community try to hide that they're new or adopt a history immediately and try to make it their own ASAP. (which, on a whole other tanget, is entirely because of the ridiculous "you aren't a real fan if you're a new fan" bullshit going around _fb.) 'cause for me, the club is first and it is the biggest thing, i guess? like, there is the club, real madrid, which began for me in the mid 90s, and that's more important than the team itself, the lineup and the individual players, and its current unsavory antics. i'd be interested to scrounge up that runofplay article, at any rate, gonna look for that in a sec!

i think that's about all i got. back to writing your fic!

[meretricula.livejournal.com]

I'm probably more "footie virgin" than even most new fans, I think, because my family was never into sports and I had zero experience of being a fan of a team before. (seriously, I think my dad took me to one Red Sox game with some other parents from our church, I was bored and fell asleep, that was the end of it.) so I had no base impressions of any football club prior to my first encounter with their current manifestation i.e. the team in 2009-10. especially because I started off reading old Serie A fic, haha. but I do think the basic idea of imprinting on the first team of a club you meet is a fair assessment. (I think the runofplay piece was about Arsenal back when they were boring, boring Arsenal, if that helps.) so, like, I know you care about Zidane and Raul and idk, Redondo, and the players and values from that era, but it's hard to ask a new fan to be sincerely attached to a club's history, to players they never saw play. (I mean, I am sincerely attached to Pep as a player, but largely because I'm attached to him as a coach so his history is relevant to me. and Cruyff, and Zubi, the ones who are still around. don't give a damn about Chapi, sry2say.) kind of like... if the team is a point and the club is a curve. you need a lot more than one point to plot the curve. MATH ANALOGIES WOOHOO IT IS KIND OF LATE.

but anyway yeah the "new fans aren't real fans" thing, I have ranted about this many times before, ALL FANS WERE NEW FANS ONCE, blah blah blah. if you're happy when they win and sad when they lose, you're a fan, the trivia quiz types can fuck off.